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No one wants to plant his seed in a garbage dump: MGTOWers explain why they prefer “chaste” women

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Uh oh.

Uh oh.

Let’s take another stroll through the strange wonderland of Men Going Their Own Way, that small and bitter tribe of men who boldly declare their independence from women, then spend the rest of their lives obsessively talking about them.

Today, let’s look at the thoughtful discussion that ensued when one such fellow known as TDG asked his Brothers in Going Their Own Way why, of all the women they have Gone Their Own Way from (but not really), they tend to prefer women who are “chaste.”

For women, I’m guessing the main reason they weren’t so slutty before the 1950s, was because of the fear of having a bastard womb turd, but the pill changed all that and now they can have as many dicks as they like.

Now, I wont ever marry again and my ex-wife was a virgin and all that went to shit, but here’s my question;

Why do men want women that are chaste…?

I understand on a visceral level, that if a woman has had too many dicks, I can never care for her more than a cum rag, but I’m curious if that is societal conditioning or something that is innate to men…

Thoughts gentlemen…?

Unsurprisingly, the gentlemen of the MGTOW HQ forum did indeed have many thoughts on the subject.  (I’ve bolded the most intriguing bits.)

ManWithAPlan had an economic explanation:

Because by going through the “bad boy” phase, they fuck away their only worth. There are three things I look for in a woman (mainly). Attractiveness, fertility and youth. If a woman is attractive and young, but can’t have kids, most men will treat her as a cum rag. If she’s fertile and young, but not attractive, she’s still no good to most men. If she’s old and attractive, she’s back to being a cougar and a cum rag.

Multishadow brought in biology:

[B]iologically speaking women represent a fertile ground for man to plant his seed, and no one wants to plant his seed in a garbage dump.

Second, a man must work to earn a woman, and then invest in her.. and no man wants to work for what others gain for free, or for what was freely given out in the past. There is also resentment for a female gaining sex freely, when a man must work for it.

And that is the third issue, people in general have a distaste for those who are gluttons for pleasure. … It is one thing to obtain sex when you want it, but if your only purpose in life is laying around having sex.. it is like watching an obese person eat.

That’s right: people who have a lot of sex are basically sex fatties. And no one likes a fatty, right?

Aldenhamil suggested that chaste women were a better bargain for frugal men:

Just having random sex is one thing and any old cum dumpster will usually do, but settling down with a woman, having children, and providing for them is something altogether different. It’s a massive investment of time, energy, and resources. Men naturally lean towards frugality and appreciate getting the most bang for their buck. When it comes to women>children>family, it’s a better bet to invest in a woman who isn’t swinging from every cock in town.

Men instinctively know that whores make poor long-term investments, but they also instinctively know that all women will become whores if given the opportunity. The whole situation is a bit of a clusterfuck, really. It was a problem for Bronze Age societies, and it’s still a problem long after we’ve managed to put human beings in outer space.

Ghost Rider noted that “chaste” women won’t have had a lot of other guys to compare you to, so chances are good she won’t know how mediocre you are in bed:

From my observations, the more men a woman has been with, the greater the chance that she is carrying at least one torch if not more for some guy that dumped her. I believe the term is alpha widow. Seen quite a few times where a woman dumps hubby to get back with a guy she was carrying a torch for, or at least conduct a torrid affair with the guy when he came a calling.

In addition, she is more likely to get back on the cock carousel trying to recapture what she thought she had when she was younger. Also, a woman who hasn’t ridden the cock carousel is a lot less judgmental in the bedroom because she isn’t comparing you to the hundreds of guys she’s been in the sack with. If you’re an average guy, you’re probably not at the same level as the alpha thug with the huge cock that fucked the shit out of her all night. If you’re dumb enough to get married/remarried, who the hell needs that shit in addition to everything else.

Demonsgate, meanwhile, seems to be more terrified of being judged by other guys than by the women he dates:

Real simple because in my younger days when I walked into a bar or restaurant with a twat I didn’t want all you bastards laughing saying yep we all fucked her and this fool is dating her. Who wants to be that guy?

Mongolking answered TDG’s question with his own question:

I think the larger question is “Why Do We Want Them… At All?”

Given that this discussion is taking place on a forum devoted to Men Going Their Own Way, this seems like a reasonable enough question.

And I’ll give you all an answer: If you hate women so much you regularly describe them as “cum rags,” “cum dumpsters,” “garbage dumps,” “whores,” “twats,” or any of the other horrible things said by guys in this thread about women in the equally awful comments I didn’t quote, you should take that Going Your Own Way shit a little bit more seriously. Go your own way. Go a long way, off a short pier.



W.F. Price of The Spearhead accuses me of supporting violence against women … by opposing violence against women

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W.F. Price (not pictured) believes the best way to prevent domestic violence is to put men in charge of households, and to keep police out

W.F. Price (not pictured) believes the best way to prevent domestic violence is to put men in charge of households, and to keep police out

W. F. Price of The Spearhead isn’t very happy about my recent suggestion that the Men’s Rights movement encourages abusive ways of thinking towards women. It’s a strange claim for him to make, coming as it is from a guy who presides over one of the most notorious outposts of vicious, virulent misogyny in the Men’s Rights universe. Even stranger is his claim that by opposing violence against women and children I am therefore … supporting policies that lead to more violence against women and children.

It’s going to take a little while to work our way through his convoluted argument. So let’s start at the beginning. Here’s the quote of mine he objects to, from my post the other day about Lundy Bancroft:

[T]he more experience I’ve had with MRAs, the more I’ve begun to see the Men’s Rights Movement not only as an “abusers’ lobby” but as an abusers’ support group, and an abusive force in its own right, promoting forms of “activism” that are little more than semi-organized stalking and harassment of individual women.

It’s not that every MRA is literally a domestic abuser, though I wouldn’t be shocked to find domestic abusers seriously overrepresented in the Men’s Rights ranks; it’s that the Men’s Rights movement promotes abusive ways of thinking and behaving.

This, to Price, is “a calculated slur designed to play to base emotions, and even worse, it’s a damned lie.”

Accusing me of “demonizing fathers,” he argues that the “anti-family policy” he claims I promote “leads to highly elevated rates of domestic violence, rape and child abuse.” He’s especially incensed that I said positive things about Bancroft, who’s an advocate for abused women and (gasp!) actually has a page on his website linking to resources for divorced and divorcing women.

Apparently encouraging women who are being abused to get themselves and their children away from their abusive partner is a terrible, terrible thing in Price’s world.

Futrelle suggests that men who promote patriarchal values, i.e. pro-family values, are more likely to be abusers. But this is not borne out by statistics. In fact, it is quite the opposite. Single mothers are most likely to be battered by sex partners who are not their children’s father, and fatherless children most likely to be murdered, raped and abused.

Yet somehow, fathers’ rights advocates are suspicious, scary people.

David, do you really hate children that much? Do you want to see more women beaten? More children raped and murdered? If so, by all means, support people like Lundy Bancroft, who profit from advocating dissolution resources. Lundy Bancroft is a member in good standing of the divorce industrial complex. He literally lives off misery and destruction of families. I don’t see how anyone could claim to advocate the safety of women and children while promoting a self-interested, home-wrecking charlatan like Bancroft.

It is immoral, it is evil, and it hurts innocent people. How, David, can you defend that?

Woah, calm down there, fella!

Very little of Price’s rant has anything to do with anything I actually wrote. I said nothing in my post about the Men’s Rights movement promoting patriarchal or “pro-family” values. Fact is, while some more traditional MRAs do advocate patriarchy, you’re far more likely to run across MRAs denouncing marriage as a deadly trap and demanding the supposed right of “legal paternal surrender” – that is, the right for fathers to abandon all financial responsibilities towards children they don’t want.

I also said nothing about divorce, though, yeah, I’m pretty sure it’s a good idea when you’re married to an abuser. And it’s a good idea a lot of other times. While divorce is almost always painful to everyone involved, I don’t know a lot of divorced people who actually regret their decision to divorce.

That said, if Price thinks that patriarchal “pro-family” values are somehow a magical deterrent to divorce, he’s simply wrong. In fact, divorce rates are considerably higher in the Red State south than in the Blue State Northeast, in part because an excess of “family values” in the South means that couples are pressured to marry young, and people who marry young are the most likely to divorce.

You’d think Price would know that patriarchal values aren’t an antidote to divorce; after all, he’s as patriarchal as they come, and he’s on his second marriage.

In any case, what I did say, and have said, about the Men’s Rights movement is that it promotes misogynistic, hateful, and abusive thinking about women. For countless examples of this one need look no further than Price’s own blog.

Indeed, in the comments to this very post of his, several Spearheaders lash out against women with crude, misogynistic insults.

Verve announces that he’s Going His Own Way – and apparently that also includes his spelling of the word “voila.”

Take women out of your life- Wa-La! Magically 98% of the stress and problems they cause that lead to anger and the insane laws that have men go to jail for nothing- all gone!

Troll King, meanwhile, is in so much of a rush to get his opinion down that he doesn’t even bother to finish typing the final word – I can only presume it is “civilization.”

I know there are horrible men, but we all also know that women destroy civi.

But it is Höllenhund who wins the Misogyny Sweepstakes with his attack on single mothers:

Women are largely unfit to be effective parents, so the children they end up raising alone are pretty much a lost cause. Either they’ll end up dead, as you mention, or end up as whipped, psychologically damaged beta white knights, ghetto-dwelling alpha thugs or carouseling sluts if they’re born female. They are already contaminated by the sinfulness and pathology of their POS mothers.

These are all from one post — a post designed to refute my claim, backed up with hundreds of blog posts’ worth of evidence — that the Men’s Rights movement is rife with misogyny and abusive thinking about women.

Going back through my older posts about The Spearhead, I found too many examples of really foul misogyny to post. Here are just a few:

A little Fathers’ Day death threat from Jeremiah MRA, which got more upvotes than downvotes from the Spearheaders:

If a woman was being problematic and tried to keep my children from me, I’d do one of two things: refuse to see the kids and refuse all support, or end the problem once and for all.

Greyghost, fantasizing about how the collapse of civilization would force women to turn once again to strong men for protection:

Next to a dog female fear is a mans best friend. Fearful insecure women tend to be more polite and pleasant to those around her.

Ck, declaring that women are “feral creatures” who love to be abused by “thugs.”

[W]omen are at best amoral beings and at worst imoral. I no longer look at a women and hope they may be the one who vaules a decent, kind, moral man. Instead I see a feral creature who wants to be thugf#$cked and used. They are addicted to a drug called emotion. They want the highs of being thugf#cked and the coming lows of being used and dumped. Then rinse and repeat.

Darryl X suggesting that all women are whores:

Women are not women today. They are whores. Big difference.

Whores, that is, who should be forced to live in caves:

Since the solution for the past forty-four years was to kill and impoverish and exile and imprison men and steal their kids, I’d say sending women to live in a cave is a generous trade.

And let’s just finish off this little parade of abusive misogyny for now with Towgunner, complaining how unfair it is for a man like him to be considered “equal” to the spiteful creature that is woman:

The women’s world is here, they do things not out of practical necessity but out of spite, Mother’s Day comes and they bemoan house wives, Father’s day comes and they point out that some men are staying home. There is nothing practical here, there is spite, there is insult, and there is hubris. I don’t admire women, I don’t ever want to be one either, there is nothing noble about them. In fact I find it an insult to be called “equal” to them at all.

Now, I have no evidence that any of these men are themselves abusers of women.

But is there evidence that beliefs like this can lead to abuse? As a matter of fact, there is. A 2002 meta-review of 39 studies found that various aspects of “masculine ideology” were clearly tied to sexual aggression in men. The authors wrote:

In feminist sociocultural models of rape, extreme adherence to the masculine gender role is implicated in the perpetuation of sexual assault against women in that it encourages men to be dominant and aggressive, and it teaches that women are inferior to men and are sometimes worthy of victimization. Many researchers have linked components of masculine ideology to self-reports of past sexual aggression or future likelihood to rape. Thirty-nine effect sizes were examined in this meta-analysis across 11 different measures of masculine ideology to determine how strongly each index of masculine ideology was associated with sexual aggression. Although 10 of the 11 effect sizes were statistically significant, the 2 largest effects were for Malamuth’s construct of “hostile masculinity”… and Mosher’s construct of “hypermasculinity” …  both of which measure multiple components of masculine ideology including acceptance of aggression against women and negative, hostile beliefs about women. The next strongest relationships concerned measures of agreement that men are dominant over women and measures of hostility toward women.

Emphasis mine.

Let’s look at the two forms of “masculine ideology” that have the highest correlations with sexual aggression. “Hypermasculinity” is essentially traditional machismo, laced with sexism. While one finds a good deal of macho posturing in the Men’s Rights movement, there are plenty of MRAs who don’t fit this stereotype.

What about “hostile masculinity?” The researchers describe it as a combination of

1) a desire to be in control, to be dominating, particularly in relation to women, and 2) an insecure, defensive, and distrustful orientation to women.

Does that sound just a little bit familiar?

It’s more or less a description of half of the MRAs out there, and probably the overwhelming majority of the commenters on The Spearhead.

Of course, the Spearheaders don’t express hostility only towards women. They also express hostility towards men who don’t hate women sufficiently. In the comments to Price’s post declaring me a father-demonizing mother and child-hater, the regulars attack me, variously, as “slimy,” “a bottom feeder,” “evil,” and “a sleazy predator in disguise” who is “too repulsive to even get into proximity of any young women.”

But it’s the rape jokes/threats that are the most charming, from Troll King’s PS at the end of one comment:

PS. FUck mantits. I still wanna titty fuck that little cunt. I bet they are nice and soft…nohomo…

To Judo-chop’s fond recollection of a rape threat from the past:

The best was that troll a couple years back who wished Manboobz would get anally raped. LOL. Futrelle totally lost it when he heard that.

Actually, the most recent anal rape “wish” was just a couple of months ago.

Pro-tip: If you want to prove to the world how totally non-abusive you guys are, you’re doing it wrong.


Vox Day: Honor mothers. Yes, they’re women, but without them the “Western sub-species” of Man would go extinct.

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Mothers: Yes, they're women, but they sometimes give birth to boys.

Mothers: Women, yes, but without them we’d have no babies.

Happy Mothers’ Day! In honor of this special day let me share the sweet sentiments of the mother-loving Vox Day, who took time out of his busy schedule of woman-hating to write a post urging his readers to “Honor the Mothers” of the world. Or at least the non-feminist mothers of the “Western sub-species” of the human race.

Vox starts out his paean to motherhood by noting that women are mostly shitty and need to be constantly reminded of their shittiness by right-thinking fellows like him:

We are, quite rightly, very often hard on women here at Alpha Game. We need to be, because they spend most of their lives having smoke blown up their pretty little asses by people of both sexes and all ages who want to curry favor with them.

Oh, but even though women are terrible, don’t give in to the temptation of misogyny!

But never be tempted into misogyny by the bad behavior of one, one hundred, one thousand, or even one million women. They are the fate of the human race. They are the fate of the Western sub-species. They matter.

Take the day to honor the mothers of our sub-species. Well, some of them.

So, honor those who reject the nihilistic hedonism of feminism despite being literally inundated with its dogma from their earliest years and fulfill their primary destiny, that of motherhood. Whether she fulfills it gracefully and well or grudgingly and incompetently, she has done her duty. Respect that she has played her part in the miracle of life, honor her for doing her part in turning back the dark void of universal entropy.

It’s not nothing. It’s not a minor thing. Without women, there is no Man.

So even if you hate women, you need to remember that they serve a useful role as incubators of future men!

Happy Mother’s Day.

And a happy mother’s day to you too, you racist, misogynistic piece of poop.


Expat PUA blogger: “24 is super crazy, crazy old. for a girl. 17. 19. past that, if we’re going to get all about babies, is pretty sketchy.”

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I couldn't come up with a good graphic for this post, so here's a giant chicken kidnapping a young boy.

I couldn’t come up with a good graphic for this post, so here’s a giant chicken kidnapping a young boy.

Jakeface — not his real name — is a “Game” blogger, pushing 40, and living in Vietnam. Or visiting there? I haven’t read enough of his blog to be able to figure that out. Given that the name of his blog is “cedonulli,” which seems to be a pretentious reference to the Latin phrase “cedo nulli” ( “I yield to none”), I probably won’t be reading all that much more.

But I do know he likes Vietnam, because he’s the sort of guy who enjoys joking about having sex with “girls … so barely legal … it’s not even funny,” and in Vietnam, he says, he’s not the only one who thinks that 24-year old women are “old as fuck.”

Did I mention he’s pushing 40 himself?

Anyway, not long ago, Jakeface offered readers of his blog his deep thoughts on the subject of age, and why women over the age of 19 are already starting to look elderly to him. [Link is mildly NSFW]

He starts off by noting sadly that even in Vietnam, he still runs into Western women in their 30s who for some strange reason think they aren’t old hags.

even nice western girls are under the influence of western default cultural context.  so many ridiculously illogical retarded things leave their mouths, that you can’t help but praise the heavens that you found a cultural base that still has a concept of sustainable biological imperatives.

“i’m 35 now, i’ve got my education and my career, i’m ready to settle down and have babies.  why can’t i find a good man?”

it’s so hard to be jake, sometimes.

Jake apparently hasn’t found the shift key on his keyboard yet.

But he can’t blame these Western gals, he says, for being “indoctrinated by western culture,” and “so it would be unfair, short sighted, dumb to make fun of miss-35 for waiting till after the closing bell to place her bid.”

Well, just so long as Miss 35 doesn’t try to get her wrinkled claws into him:

when the same miss-35 makes some eyeballs your way though, and says “i think you’re attractive”, then things get a bit creepier.

Dude, if you’re going to write fiction, at least try to make the dialogue sound vaguely realistic.

Anyway, Jake informs us that this eyeball-making elderly lady of 35 with the world’s least creative pickup line is

like the homeless man wandering into the bentley dealer, making moves to go sit in the new continental gt. a clear case of a completely non-reality based self image.  a delusion, painful to those who may have to be part of a conflicting reality.  i totally get how 19 year old girls must feel, when the 65 year old liver-spotted shaking hands of the australian tourist reach for her thigh.

Yes, that’s right: when a 35-year-old woman hits on a man her age or even slightly older, she is like a 65-year-old man pawing the thighs of a 19-year-old girl.

That’s PUA math for you.

Actually, that’s the math that PUAs try to sell to their readers, and to themselves.

In reality the math that really counts for Western expats like Jakeface has to do with exploiting their relative wealth in countries where a sufficient number of women are poor enough that putting up with a PUA and his bullshit isn’t the worst option they have. In Vietnam, per capita income is a little over $1,100 (American). Per capita income in the US? About $43,000. That’s the real expat PUA math.

Anyway, Jakeface continues with his rant:

24 is super crazy, crazy old.  for a girl.

17. 19. past that, if we’re going to get all about babies, is pretty sketchy.

Yeah, he really said that. Does he even believe it? Who knows? The average age for first births in the United States is 26; in the UK, it’s 30. The risks of pregnancy and giving birth over the age of 35 have been greatly exaggerated, and the vast majority of babies born to women later in life are perfectly healthy. Even if he doesn’t know any women his age who’ve had children,you might think he would have noticed the small army of female celebrities in their forties who’ve been popping out babies without either them or the babies exploding.

But Jakeface isn’t basing his conclusions here on a close reading of the medical literature, or even People magazine. Nope, as he makes clear, his opinions are coming straight from his dick and his “barely legal” obsessed brain.

who cares about what which culture says about it.  that’s what my brain, freed from all the media propaganda, is finding attractive.  at 24, you can already start to imagine what she’ll look like in 10 years.  the outlines are set.  the fantasy of youth eternal is already shattered.

24 is old-holy-fuck-you’re-countess-dracula, tell me about how life was in the 16th century.

Again, Jakeface by his own admission is almost 40.

in vietnam, that sort of age awareness seems to be the consensus, still.  which makes vietnam ok in my book.  it makes me think about applying for vietnamese citizenship.  i want to be part of a culture that shares my innate values.  a 35 year old vietnamese woman wouldn’t go “heeeey, soooo, how about some babies?”  it’d be considered unfathomably rude, suggesting that my value wouldn’t allow me the choice of a 19 year old instead, that my fridge is only good for milk a solid week and a half past its expiration date.

Dude, you only have this “value” in countries where a good portion of the women don’t have good options. And you know it. That’s why you’re in a country with a per capita income that is literally 1/38th that of the United States.

and this isn’t personal, as in if you read this and you’re a 35 year old woman, i’m not making fun.  i’m only talking about biological reality, and my own mating preferences.  which also, mating preferences of any man with the option, and in his right mind.

Really? George Clooney, formerly the world’s most eligible bachelor, just got engaged to a 36-year-old.

it could still happen.  jake might have some asian babies with a few 24 year old girls.  there are two current contenders, which i’m hoping to replace with some 17 year olds, before some heat-of-the-moment questionable decisions.

it’s hard to take a step back, when you’re in the pet shop, surrounded by puppies.

For the sake of all that is good in this world, dude, do not breed. Do not saddle some poor Vietnamese teenager with your spawn.


Reddit or Stormfront? The hip new game that’s sweeping the nation

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Uh, dudes, that's not how you upvote someone on Reddit.

Reddit upvotes, in real life.

Just wanted to let you all know about avery diverting — and damnably difficult — little game you can play on the internets: Reddit or Stormfront?

The premise is simple: You’re presented with an assortment of terrible comments, and you simply have to guess whether each one came from the hive of whiteboy bigotry known as Reddit … or the hive of white supremacist bigotry known as Stormfront.

It’s actually really hard. I’ve been playing it off and on since last night, and I’m barely doing better than pure chance.

The game was evidently inspired by the funny/disturbing Reddit-critical subreddit, SRSsucksOrStormfront. You might also enjoy perusing MRMorWhiteRights.


“The battle against feminism is most definitely a white rights issue,” Reddit douchebag explains.

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White men: Hot local girls are waiting for you  now!

White men: Hot local girls are waiting for you now!

Here’s a horrible comment from Reddit’s always horrible White Rights subreddit that reveals some of  the ways that the central ideas and obsessions of the manosphere are oozing their way into the thinking, such as it is, of the racist right. Birds of a feather flock together, and I guess the same is true of hateful shitheads.

What’s interesting to me is how easily Mr. Saturnine83 here is able to take the traditional racist paranoia about white women not popping out enough white babies to keep the white race going and make the whole “problem” about stuck-up ladies who won’t date him decent white men. For those filling out bingo cards, note the references to”disposible” men and “involuntary celibacy.”

Saturnine83 6 points 2 months ago (6|0)  Feminism has done a great deal of damage to white nations. It has essentially turned white women against white men in what seems like an ever-escalating gender war. It has convinced white women that white men are a disposable, unnecessary part of their kids' lives. It has also lowered birthrates in white nations by convincing women that in order to have a life that they can be proud of, they must compete with men in the workforce, thus neglecting their natural imperative to have children.  I wouldn't go so far as to advocate the traditional blather of "women belong barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen", but a white woman who does not produce at bare minimum 2 white children is failing to do her part for her race. Without reproducing, regardless of whatever other pro-white actions she has taken in her life (unless they were truly remarkable), she has failed her race. White men who also refuse to reproduce with white women have failed their race as well. Obviously people who are infertile have a valid excuse and should pursue other means of contributing (such as raising adopted white children to be racially aware), so I don't want to say that there is no way that they can contribute, but for everyone else the rule applies.  Unfortunately for a lot of men, the choice of whether they have children or not is not available to them, either through involuntary celibacy or simply being too undesirable. Feminism has also ratcheted up the degree to which hypergamy is in effect in young women, with the resulting belief among most young white women being that unless a man meets a laundry list of specifications then he is practically invisible to them. This leaves a lot of young men lonely and a lot of women childless as they don't understand that their standards were unreasonable until it is too late to have children.  I could go on and on endlessly, but the battle against feminism is most definitely a white rights issue.

Oh, we have no doubt you could go on and on endlessly. Guys like you always can.

If you’re interested in exploring further connections between “Men’s Rights” and “White Rights,” check out the MRMorWhiteRights subreddit, which tracks this stuff in an entertaining way, and which is where I found the link to Saturnine83′s little screed.


Why Elliot Rodger’s misogyny matters

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A chart posted by Elliot Rodger, giving his chilling spin on a manosphere meme depicting supposed female "hypergamy"

A chart posted by Elliot Rodger, giving his chilling spin on a manosphere meme depicting supposed female “hypergamy”

When a white supremacist murders blacks or Jews, no one doubts that his murders are driven by his hateful, bigoted ideology. When homophobes attack a gay youth, we rightly label this a hate crime.

But when a man filled to overflowing with hatred of women acts upon this hatred and launches a killing spree targeting women, many people find it hard to accept that his violence has anything to do with his misogyny. They’re quick to blame it on practically anything else they can think of – guns, video games, mental illness – though none of these things in themselves would explain why a killer would target women.

In the case of Elliot Rodger, who set out on Friday night aiming, as he put it in a chilling video, to “slaughter every single spoiled, stuck-up, blonde slut” in a popular sorority house at the University of California, Santa Barbara, some Men’s Rights activists and other manospherians are doing their best to convince the world that misogyny had nothing to do with it.

On A Voice for Men, for example, Janet Bloomfield (who goes by the name JudgyBitch), notes that Rodger killed more men than women, and thereby declares that

Elliot was an equal opportunity hate monger, torn between wanting to kill women and wanting to kill men. …

Jessica Valenti proclaims that “misogyny kills”, blithely unconcerned with the fact that more men than women were killed.  Killing men is misogyny?  That’s an interesting interpretation.

Bloomfield ignores the reason more men were killed than women: Rodger’s planned massacre of sorority women failed. He was unable to get inside the sorority house. And so he was forced to improvise.

On Twitter, meanwhile, cultural commenter Cathy Young, long sympathetic to Men’s Righsters, seems to think that Rodger’s rampage was entirely due to “mental illness” and argues that connecting Rodger’s rampage to a wider culture of misogyny is a form of “anti-male hate speech.”

Even more strangely, the proudly racist Steve Sailer – a hero to Heartiste and others in the “alt-right” wing of the manosphere – has declared that Rodger wasn’t motivated by misogyny but rather by “anti-Blondism,” and that his targeting of “ blonde sluts” in a popular sorority house was “an extremely intentional racial hate crime.” Never mind that the half-Asian Rodger idolized blonde women as superior (even as he hated them) and that his comments online are littered with rather crude, rather traditional racism against people who weren’t white.

But Sailer’s claim is little more than an attempt at a derail.

The fact is that Rodger made his misogyny very clear — in his videos, in his internet postings and most of all in his 140-page “manifesto,” which is filled with angry denunciations of women and elaborate fantasies of violent “retribution” towards them. As with many misogynists, his misogyny was largely driven by thwarted sexual entitlement: he desired women intensely but they (wisely) wanted nothing to do with him.

Consider the following passages from his manifesto. I’ve put some of the most disturbing bits in bold.

The most beautiful of women choose to mate with the most brutal of men, instead of magnificent gentlemen like myself. Women should not have the right to choose who to mate and breed with. That decision should be made for them by rational men of intelligence. If women continue to have rights, they will only hinder the advancement of the human race by breeding with degenerate men and creating stupid, degenerate offspring. This will cause humanity to become even more depraved with each generation. Women have more power in human society than they deserve, all because of sex. There is no creature more evil and depraved than the human female.

Women are like a plague. They don’t deserve to have any rights. Their wickedness must be contained in order prevent future generations from falling to degeneracy. Women are vicious, evil, barbaric animals, and they need to be treated as such. … All women must be quarantined like the plague they are, so that they can be used in a manner that actually benefits a civilized society. …

The first strike against women will be to quarantine all of them in concentration camps. At these camps, the vast majority of the female population will be deliberately starved to death. That would be an efficient and fitting way to kill them all off. I would take great pleasure and satisfaction in condemning every single woman on earth to starve to death.

I don’t know about you, but to me that sounds just a little bit like misogyny.

Rodger saw his “Day of Retribution” as part of a war against women. Elsewhere in his manifesto he wrote:

Women’s rejection of me is a declaration of war, and if it’s war they want, then war they shall have. It will be a war that will result in their complete and utter annihilation. I will deliver a blow to my enemies that will be so catastrophic it will redefine the very essence of human nature.

Now, there is no question that he also hated certain kinds of men and boys – the “obnoxious brutes” he so often saw with the “pretty blonde girls” he simultaneously desired and despised. His manifesto is dotted with denunciations of them, as well as with denunciations of humanity as a whole. At one point, he posted a fantasy on PUAhate about killing all the men on earth with a virus so he could have all the women for himself. But he thought about, and wrote about, killing women all the time.

Indeed, even when he was bullied as a youngster, he directed most of his anger not at the bullies themselves but at their girlfriends.

Remembering one bullying incident from high school, he wrote

Some boys randomly pushed me against the lockers as they walked past me in the hall. One boy who was tall and had blonde hair called me a “loser”, right in front of his girlfriends. Yes, he had girls with him. Pretty girls. And they didn’t seem to mind that he was such an evil bastard. In fact, I bet they liked him for it. … The most meanest and depraved of men come out on top, and women flock to these men. Their evil acts are rewarded by women; while the good, decent men are laughed at. … I hated the girls even more than the bullies because of this.

Rodger was not only a misogynist; he was explicitly an enemy of feminism. While he doesn’t seem to have ever identified as a Men’s Rights activist per se – the only “rights” he seemed to be interested in were his own – his postings online echo the extreme and ignorant denunciations of feminism seen amongst MRAs and other manospherians.

This, too, has been denied by Men’s Rights activists. On AVFM, the “non-feminist” would-be “philosopher” Fidelbogen declares that

We have no evidence yet that Elliott Rodger was anything but apolitical in regard to feminism as such. He was not outspoken about feminism … He was only a sexually frustrated chump with mental issues, who apparently “hooked up” with PUA literature, and websites like “the Manhood Academy”.

In fact, Rodger attacked feminism explicitly in a number of comments on PUAhate, where rabid antifeminism is essentially the default ideology. In one comment, he declared bluntly that “feminism must be destroyed.” In another he predicted that

One day incels will realize their true strength and numbers, and will overthrow this oppressive feminist system.

Start envisioning a world where WOMEN FEAR YOU.

And while he saw PUAhate itself as “a putrid pit of despair,” he argued that

it does give a view of what the world is really like, what women are really like, and the evils of a feminist society.

Every male should read the posts here so that they can be awakened. There are too many delusional males worshipping women who would only spit in their faces.

There is no question that Rodger was a very disturbed man. I’m not a psychiatrist, nor do I have access to his medical or psychiatric records. But I would not be shocked to find that he was struggling with some sort of mental disorder or disorders. He was seeing several therapists, and a psychiatrist prescribed the antipsychotic Risperidone for him; he refused to take it. This prescription in itself doesn’t prove he was psychotic; psych meds are often prescribed for off-label uses, and Risperidone is also used to reduce irritability in people with autism. (Rodger was reportedly diagnosed as having aspergers.)

But, as someone who has himself dealt with depression for decades, I cannot help but think, reading through his manifesto, that his thinking was, as mine has sometimes been, distorted by depression.

He was also clearly a narcissist, in the colloquial sense if not necessarily in the clinical sense, whose resentment of others was driven by narcissistic rage. And some of his pronouncements, particularly towards the end of his life, were so grandiose it’s hard to know whether these reflected his tendency towards melodrama, fueled by his love of fantasy literature and video games, or if they are symptoms of a delusional disconnection from the real world.

I don’t think, given the considerable evidence there is of his troubled state of mind, that raising these issues detracts from the main point, and that is:

Rodger was a misogynist through and through. In many ways his misogyny was his life. If you watch his videos and read his manifesto, you’ll see that he related anything and everything in his life to what he saw as the grand tragedy of his rejection by “girls,” a state of affairs he blamed entirely on the girls of the world and not on his own “magnificent” self.

He was utterly consumed by his sexual obsession with “pretty blonde girls” and their utter lack of interest in him, and, increasingly, by his elaborate fantasies of “retribution” against them, which ultimately led to his killing spree on Friday night.

To deny that he was driven by misogyny makes as little sense as denying that Hitler was driven by anti-Semitism.

The evidence is as clear-cut as it can be on this point. Anyone who can’t or won’t admit this is either an ideologue or a liar – or both.

Thanks to Melody and several other readers for pointing me to some of the examples used in this post.


Heartiste takes on an “egotistic, attention starved, solipsistic, passive aggressive, perpetually aggrieved … manlet” who somehow isn’t him.

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elliothate

The We Hunted the Mammoth Pledge Drive continues! If you haven’t already, please consider sending some bucks my way. (And don’t worry that the PayPal page says Man Boobz.)

Thanks! (And thanks again to all who’ve already donated.) Now back to our regularly scheduled programming:

Well, the great minds of the manosphere have been going into overdrive trying to explain away the fact that a man who had a lot in common with them, ideology-wise, murdered six innocent people on Friday as part of a “Day of Retribution” that he had hoped would involve a lot more dead bodies, particularly of the blonde, female variety.

We had noted cultural commenter JudgyBitch (Janet Bloomfield) looking at Elliot Rodger, a man who wrote a 140-page manifesto detailing his hatred of women and girls, a manifesto that contained the following paragraph:

Women are like a plague. They don’t deserve to have any rights. Their wickedness must be contained in order prevent future generations from falling to degeneracy. Women are vicious, evil, barbaric animals, and they need to be treated as such.

.. and which ended with a fantasy of putting all the women in the world in concentration camps and starving them to death, while Rodger took a position in a giant tower built just for him “where I can oversee the entire concentration camp and gleefully watch them all die,” and suggesting that Rodger wasn’t actually a misogynist, because he wasn’t able to get into the sorority and murder all the “blonde sluts” he had hoped to murder and so ended up killing more men than women.

We had pickup guru and sometime date rapist Roosh Val looking at that same fellow, a young man who decided that all the women in the world deserved to die because no hot blondes came up and threw themselves at him while he wandered around campus talking to no one, and deciding that “game” would have saved his life and the life of his victims.

And we had Dr. Helen trying her best to insinuate that feminists were to blame for Rodger’s murders in California because a small group of feminists blocked a lecture by a Men’s Rights celebrity in Toronto and therefore prevented Rodger from getting the proper psychiatric care he needed, even though he had been seeing psychiatrists for years as well as a string of counselors in his final days.

But we still haven’t’ heard from the master of PUA purple prose, the Heartiste formerly known as Roissy. What the heck does he think about poor dead murderer Elliot Rodger?

Well, he has answered that question at last. According to Heartiste, the fallen Rodger was a repressed gay “social retard” who was also possibly a hetero incel beta male member of an omega male brothel. Plus some other stuff. I guess I should let Heartiste explain, because there’s no way to summarize his particular brand of fragrant prose poop.

First, teh gay:

Rodger pings some operational gaydars. There’s his plush gay face. There’s the “try-hard” nature of his manifesto, which reads less like a compendium of genuine pain than a B-movie script of what he’d think a guy with girl troubles would write. … And his narcissism; if you haven’t seen by now, Rodger had a stream of attention whoring pouty-lipped Facebook selfies that would make a dancing bar slut blush.

Setting aside the unproved gay hypothesis, Heartiste considers Rodger’s life as an incel – or “involuntary celibate.”

From what I can glean, Elliot Rodger failed with women because he was a social retard. That’s pretty much all there is to it. … He thought that “putting himself out there” with girls was sitting on a park bench like Aqualung. That making a serious move on a girl was quickly muttering “hi” as he stumbled past her, later delirious with rage that she didn’t reciprocate with an equally prompt blowjob. That bumping into an Asian dude talking to a cute chick, and glaring at them with his twisted angry face, was acting “cocky and arrogant”. That his effeminate passivity and lack of proactive engagement with women was evidence that they were “ignoring” him.

Actually, Heartiste sort of has a point here: Rodger seems to have literally never approached a single woman. His idea of courtship was to put on designer clothes and wander around outside, hoping that some lovely blonde gal would take a fancy to him and invite herself to be his girlfriend.

Heartiste, like Roosh, thinks that “game” could have saved Rodger, but only if he had been gotten to earlier. Alas, Heartiste notes, Rodger turned not to PUA but to the website PUAhate.

Which brings us to PUAHate … It’s not a forum for failed pickup artists as some male feminists licking the taint of their femcunt overwhores will want you to believe. It’s a hangout for socially awkward losers who desperately want to blame their failings with women on their sub-Pitt looks instead of on their awful social calibration and their inability to say two words to a girl without filling their Pokemon underoos.

Again, Heartiste is partly right. No, not that bit about the femcunt overwhores and the fellows in their underwears. That other stuff. PUAhate is indeed a cesspit. While there are some people on the site legitimately interested in exposing PUA fraud, they’re outnumbered by angry incels and misogynistic trolls.

No sense ignoring the race angle.

Oh dear. Given that Heartiste is basically a genteel Nazi and Rodger was half-white, half-Asian, this isn’t going to be pretty.

Mixed race people are more likely to have psychological disorders. And Asian men are especially susceptible to dating market lockouts. Throw in the cauldron a stew of vibrant proximate diversity and it’s a surprise suppressed racial/sexual rage doesn’t boil over more often.

Ok, that wasn’t quite as awful as I expected, though I’m pretty sure Heartiste’s reference to “vibrant proximate diversity” is basically just his way of suggesting that segregation is preferable to a society in which different ethnic groups actually come into contact with one another on a regular basis.

Heartiste decides to end by suggesting that the “effeminate” Rodger may be a sign of things to come:

The title of this post is a broad indictment of this infantile Millennial generation, which daily provides evidence that their ranks are filled with effeminate males who, like women, expect the world to cater their needs, no questions asked, no demands made. Elliot Rodger couldn’t stand how unfaaaair girls were to date uglier men than himself, how unfair life was that his car and clothes weren’t a magnet for hot white sorority chicks, how unfair the cosmic laws were to require of him a little bit of effort if he wanted to put an end to his virginity.

Egotistic, attention starved, solipsistic, passive aggressive, perpetually aggrieved, and unwilling to change when posing as a martyr feels so damn good… there’s your new American manlet, same as your new American woman.

Wait, run that first part by me again?

Egotistic, attention starved, solipsistic, passive aggressive, perpetually aggrieved, and unwilling to change when posing as a martyr feels so damn good

Heartiste has just described the typical manospehrian, to a t.



#EndFathersDay: Trolls being trolls, or “black propaganda” designed to tear apart feminism?

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Not actual feminist

Not actual feminist

You all got the memo about #EndFathersDay fiasco, right – the phony “feminist” hashtag, seeded and spread by 4chan trolls, that aroused so much consternation on Twitter the other day, and that took in so many who’re already given to thinking the worst about feminism?

It would be nice if we could just dismiss this whole thing as trolls being trolls – no harm, no foul. But there’s a bit more to it than that.

For one thing, the troll campaign worked. At least on some people: While feminist writers quickly rushed in to point out that the whole thing was an antifeminist hoax, more than a few in the right-wing media were taken in utterly.

On the National Review Online, Molly Wharton warned that “Twitter anti-fatherists” were taking aim at a holiday that they said “glorifies rape, patriarchy, and child abuse.” The Washington Examiner railed against #EndFathersDay as “the latest ridiculous hashtag from the feminist outrage machine.”

On Fox News’ Fox & Friends, antifeminist author and “Princeton Mom” Susan Patton went further:

They’re not just interested in ending Father’s Day, they’re interested in ending men. …That’s really what they want.

A similar warning came from the self-proclaimed leader of the self-proclaimed Men’s Human Rights Movement:

The Daily Caller tried to play it a bit cooler, acknowledging that the phony campaign had started with 4chan but contending that “feminists quickly picked it up and ran with it.”

The evidence? The alarmists cited tweets like this one, from “Phoebe Kwon” a self-proclaimed “Lesbian, Korean American, Feminist” from “San Fransico.” [sic]

Kwon was also responsible for this charmingly subtle Tweet – I’m not sure how the right-wingers missed this one.

Had any of these commentators looked closely at the “outrageous” tweets cited as evidence of this feminist anti-fatherite uprising they might have figured out that something was up: They all seemed to come from a tiny handful of Twitter accounts, most with only a few followers, many of them festooned with elaborate Social Justice Warrioresque self descriptions, like this one, from @CisHate11

Polyamorous Pansexual Otherkin (faerie), Marxist Misandrist. Fucker of the patriarchy. I majored in womyns studies and procrastination

Phoebe Kwon, one of the most-quoted of all the alleged anti-fatherites, not only spelled the name of her alleged home city wrong; as one We Hunted the Mammoth reader pointed out to me, her avatar was actually a stock photo:

Phoebe Kwon, feminist Tweeter

Phoebe Kwon, feminist Tweeter

Phoebe Kwon, stock photo model

Phoebe Kwon, stock photo model

And, oh yeah, 4channers – at least those in on the joke – have acknowledged her as one of their own.

As the Daily Dot noted, this was not the first time 4channers had angered the gullible and annoyed real feminists with a fake feminist #hashtag campaign. In January they got some traction with a phony “thinspo” campaign “BikiniBridge,” celebrating what one Tumblr blog called “the graceful space created by a woman’s hip bones suspending bikini bottoms from their abdomens.”

This was followed by the even more ridiculous Operation Freebleeding, which denounced tampons and sanitary pads and all devices used to staunch the flow of menstrual blood as tools of the patriarchy.

So, some trolls trolled some people. Big deal right?

Well, not exactly. Because this isn’t just trolling for the sake of trolling. This is trolling with an agenda.

If you scroll back through “Phoebe Kwon’s” tweets, you’ll see that “her” account originated back in August of 2013, in the midst of a Twitterstorm around the hashtag #SolidarityIsForWhiteWomen. While that hashtag was a real one, started and promoted by feminist/womanist women of color to critique white allies (and “allies”), 4channers jumped into the fray with fake Twitter accounts in an attempt to poison the discussion and further divide feminists along racial lines.

“Kwon” and other faux accounts also jumped into the more recent #YesAllWomen hashtag with deliberately and sometimes ridiculously inflammatory tweets.

The trolls behind these campaigns aren’t just trolls out to create chaos, though they are that. They’re also racist, homophobic, transphobic bigots out to fuck over feminism.

Indeed, a few months ago, a writer for Roosh Valizadeh’s Return of Kings blog who goes only by Douglas reported that he’d gotten a mysterious message from someone called “Bavarian,” who told him that 4chan’s antifeminist campaigns were all part of something called “Operation Lollipop,” a “black propaganda” campaign to fracture feminism. Bavarian wrote:

I was told you are interested in my group’s (Codename: Lollipop) ongoing operation against the PoOs (People of Oppression). My group poses as feminists on twitter. We bait other PoOs into agreeing with us as we subtly move them more and more to the extreme. The purpose is to make moderate feminists turned off with the movement, as well as cause infighting within the group. …

We manly pose as women of color and argue with white feminists. We “check their privilege” to the point that they are fed up. For example, if they say “it’s not our time to talk, white ladies, it’s our time to listen,” we say “the last time white women just listened, George Zimmerman walked free.”

The campaign began during Hugo Schwyzer’s public meltdown, which Bavarian described as filtered through his own racist lens:

This group started when the hashtag #solidarityisforwhitewomen started trending. It referred to an incident where the feminist Hugo Schwartz [sic] had a mental breakdown and revealed on twitter that feminism was a fraud. He further revealed that WoC were incompetent and only got in the way of the movement. Some white women offered him sympathy and told him to get help. The WoC got angry and started the hashtag.

Bavarian pointed him to a page documenting the phony tweets, many of which come from the same accounts that posted the most outrageous #EndFathersDay tweets. (The site he linked to is now down, but this blog, still available through the Wayback Machine, appears to be some sort of mirror.)

Douglas, for his part, was delighted by the deviousness of it all.

I can only imagine the chaos such an operation would wreak upon the feminists. I look forward to seeing how it all works out. Maybe it will cause the level of mistrust to skyrocket to levels that would hinder the feminist machine. Maybe it will give me more things to laugh at on the internet. All I know is this concept is quite dastardly and funny.

It’s all a bit ridiculously cloak and dagger, but I don’t think we can dismiss it as a joke. The people behind it are trolls, sure, but they are also nasty bigots obsessed with fucking up feminism and “progressives” in general. And people still get fooled by these campaigns.

Now that we know what they’re up to, the trolls may find it harder to fool quite so many people in the future. They may keep trying, to lesser and lesser effect. Or they might come up with something a bit more sophisticated. I guess we’ll see.

EDITED TO ADD:  Check out the Twitter hashtag #YourSlipIsShowing, devoted to exposing these fake accounts; so far they’ve IDed 200 or so. This Storify is useful, too.


The gender and racial makeovers of Thor and Captain America rustle jimmies at The Spearhead and Chateau Heartiste

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Captain America and the guy who'll be taking over his job

Captain America and the guy who’ll be taking over his job

So it turns out that Red Pill Redditors aren’t the only ones in a tizzy about Marvel comics’ plan to replace Thor (the superhero, not the actual Norse god, all praise him) with a woman. All over the manosphere, jimmies are rustling at the news.

The proudly racist, woman-hating pickup artist guru known as Heartiste is not only outraged by the “gelding” of Thor but also, and even more vehemently, by Marvel’s decision to make Captain America black, which he bizarrely describes as a kind of racial cuckolding:

Liberals are gloating over the recent editorial choices to geld Thor and race cuck Captain America. The former will become Whor, the female Thor, and the latter will become Captain Gibsmedat, the numinous negro who saves the right kinds of white people from the wrong kinds of white people.

“Gibsmedat” – I had to look it up – is a term that ridiculous racists like to use to describe welfare checks and other “goods, services, or material … given predominately to minorities, in exchange for their tacit agreement to reciprocate by not burning down America’s cities.” It’s short, you see, for “gibs me dat.”

Hilarious, huh? The term seems to be especially popular on Chimpmania.com, a site so ludicrously racist it makes Stormfront look tame.

Heartiste continues, lashing out at a “fat white liberal quasi-male named Devin Faraci” for publicly supporting Marvel’s decision to (at least temporarily) give the Captain America costume to The Falcon, another public-spirited superhero who happens to be black:

The fat white liberal face is archetypal. These race traitors all have a “look”, don’t they? Genetics, perhaps, or just a lifetime spent wiping orange Cheetostaches off their porcine mugs. Look at that faggot. He could double as an old lesbian halfway through her hormonal replacement therapy. If ever a face looked as if it was born to have a fist buried in it, Faraci has it.

Homoophia, racism, misogyny, fat-shaming, then back to homophobia before ending with a fantasy of violence. Charming, huh?

Faraci, for his part, has taken that last bit about facepunching  in stride, adopting it as his Twitter bio.

Oh, but Heartiste isn’t done yet: he then goes on to accuse Faraci – on the basis of precisely no evidence – of hypocritically living in a neighborhood devoid of “the minorities he jerks off to.”

The anti-white liberal white male is the most loathsome of creatures. More despicable than the minorities he jerks off to, because he fulminates a credo at 180 degree odds with his chosen lifestyle for status whoring feels. Hypocritical, smug, and you just know the first to run from a fight, gathering his skirt up and shrieking like a little girl.

I wonder about the demographics of this pigman’s neighborhood? Anyone care to investigate? I might put up a post in future called “The Leftoid List”, with the names of infamous anti-white leftoid equalist turds juxtaposed with the race demographics of their immediate neighborhoods. Should be illuminating.

That would be illuminating. Not about the “Leftoids” in question, but about the fellow who calls himself Heartiste.

The comments to Heartiste’s article are, of course, appalling, filled with rants about “homos and … leftards” and “social justice fags.” They hit all the “alt right” talking points, from homophobia to racism.

They even manage to evoke the far right’s all-time favorite villain: The Jew. One commenter announces that he

did some half-hearted googling about “Faraci” to see whether his mother had been a jewess or maybe whether he had changed his jew birthname to a more WOP-sounding name when he joined the Film Actors Guild … .

And then there’s this exchange:

Bill  What a lardass scumbag. I don’t go to those movies but lots of impressionable people do, both in the US as well as abroad. The lefties who dominate the entertainment industry are on a crusade to insert black hero type characters into every film, even if it means switching an existing character’s race from white to black. If an immigrant from an out of the way place arrived here and watched tv and movies he would think all blacks are honest judges, compassionate doctors, and wise presidents and half the white people were criminals.      on July 18, 2014 at 2:57 pm | Reply Hilary Clinton      “lefties” is speld J-E-

(I’m pretty sure that is not the actual Hillary Clinton commenting.)

Meanwhile, another commenter claims that this “anti-White Kulturkampf [is] part of the greatest gencoide ever perpetrated.”

That’s right: Heartiste’s neo-Nazi fanboys think there’s a Nazi-style genocide being perpetuated against them.

Not that they’re particularly shy about advocating violence themselves. One long-time commenter writes:

Laguna Beach Fogey  That fat white liberal head would look awesome stuck on a pike outside the Chateau’s walls.

Meanwhile, another commenter posts the address and telephone number of a guy named Farci living in California; another gently points outit’s up to someone who calls himself Ted Cunterblast to point out that he’s gotten the guy’s name wrong. Yes, that’s right: among Heartiste’s followers, it’s Ted Cunterblast who serves as the closest thing to a voice of reason.

But it’s not just Heartiste and his horde who are angry about white male superheros becoming something other than white or male.

Over on the also-ran Men’s Rights hub The Spearhead, W.F. Price takes a few minutes out from tending to the new baby in the household to bash out some ill-formed thoughts on what he calls “Trans Thor.”

I’m not sure whether this is an attempt to grab some publicity or a true appeal to feminists/transsexuals, but it’s a risky move in the long-term. While adults might tolerate the switch as an amusing diversion, comics are fundamentally children’s literature. …

So I wonder whether this new storyline is intended for an adult audience, and if so, whether it’s a signal that Marvel either doesn’t care about the base market for comics, or has already been surpassed by other companies that appeal better to boys and has decided to give up. …

And if Marvel thinks it can make up for the loss of interest in boys by picking up girls, it’s time to think again. Normal girls (as opposed to future feminists) far prefer feminine characters doing ladylike things — not dominatrix types holding giant hammers. …

Finally, adult women who like Thor will not be all that happy about this. Thor’s main appeal to women is as a Nordic hunk. It’s hard to overstate the appeal of manly warriors with flowing blond hair — especially to white women. Changing Thor into a woman is going to seriously anger some of these female fans; perhaps even more than the men.

The commenters on The Spearhead, as usual, manage to outdo Price in their bigotry and ridiculousness.

One commenter claims that

This is just another variation on “piss Christ.” Changing a European mythical figure into a woman is meant to humiliate.

Spearhead regular Uncle Elmer suggests that switching Thor’s gender is designed to appeal to actual feminist Nazis:

Himmler was fascinated by Teutonic myths and named his daughter after some Germanic heroine. He was also obsessed with pre-Christian witch cults and blamed the church for mass murder of thousands of witches during the middle ages.

So it fits that making Thor a woman is a move to placate Femi-Nazis.

Meanwhile, Nemo suggests that the gender-switchers are more like old-school Stalinists:

This trend of replacing/murdering/transgendering/etc. white heterosexual male characters reminds me of the Soviet Union’s airbrushing of Politburo members who had fallen out of favor with Stalin.  A newly declared “unperson” such as Trotsky who had been photographed with Lenin would be turned into a wall or a tree in the old photos . The Party would “re-imagine” history in a manner that made it conform with current doctrine.  http://www.tc.umn.edu/~hick0088/classes/csci_2101/false.html  The link above notes that women are willing to use the same technique to remove old boyfriends and ex-husbands from family photos.  The parallels between communism and feminism are no longer being downplayed or suppressed by the MSM. Why bother? It’s now considered to be perfectly normal to distort reality or fiction or anything else for political motives.  Anyone who objects to the airbrushing of the past is now the bad guy.  How long will it be before they start sending thugs with icepicks after real men instead of just killing comic book characters?

I don’t know, dude. Probably never? It’s not feminists who are suggesting that a punch in the face – or a beheading – is the proper response to a comic book character getting a gender or racial makeover.

 


“Egalitarian” Redditor explains why protesting Michael Brown’s shooting would be a “gross misuse of the MRM’s relatively meager resources.”

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" The MRM aims towards improving the rights of all men, not small subsets of men."

“The MRM aims towards improving the rights of all men, not small subsets of men.”

I suppose none of us should really be shocked that the death of Michael Brown, a black teenager literally shot in the back by a white officer, has caused barely a ripple in the world of the Men’s Rightsers — there are only two small threads on the subject on the Men’s Rights subreddit at the moment, and the only active one is filled with a lot of tut-tutting about “violent” protesters. It’s hardly news that MRAs, almost all of them white men, are more interested in lamenting their own imagined oppression than they are in dealing with the real injustices faced by young men of color.

But I have to admit I was a bit surprised by the callous “logic” in the following, currently the top comment in the only thread devoted to Michael Brown’s death in the FeMRAdebates subreddit:

ZorbaTHut Egalitarian [score hidden] 8 hours ago*  Well, first, homicide may be the leading cause of death among young black men, but it's not the leading cause of death among men. It is certainly a concern, but the good news is that there are many organizations already concerned about it. The MRM aims towards improving the rights of all men, not small subsets of men, and spending a bunch of effort on an issue that is already well-covered would be a gross misuse of the MRM's relatively meager resources.  That said, keep in mind why you've heard about this at all. Michael Brown's murder isn't getting airtime because he was male; it's getting airtime because he was black and because he was killed by a white police officer in a massive show of police power. If he was white and homeless you might have heard a bit about it, but it certainly never would have been discussed by the Tumblrsphere. If he was killed by someone who wasn't a police officer, nobody would give a shit, black or white.  The problem isn't that the MRM is ignoring Michael Brown. The problem is that everyone else ignores all the male murder victims who weren't a black person killed by a white man in power. This problem isn't solved by making even more of a media circus around the one-in-hundred-thousand male murder victim that Jezebel decides to bother with.

“Egalitarianism,” you’re doing it wrong.

The FeMRAdebates subreddit is supposed to be a neutral forum for feminists and MRAs to discuss issues, yet somehow manages to be even more cringe-inducing than the Men’s Rights subreddit.

(Thanks to diehtc0ke on Reddit for pointing out this amazing comment.)


#FreeWarMachine: A hashtag for the worst people on planet earth

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War Machine, thinking positive thoughts about himself.

War Machine, thinking positive thoughts about himself.

If you’re worried that your view of humanity is excessively sunny, well, here’s one way to fix that: take a look at the hashtag #FreeWarMachine on Twitter, full of people who seem to honestly believe that mixed martial arts fighter and sometime porn actor War Machine either didn’t beat his ex-girlfriend nearly to death, or that, if he did, she probably deserved it anyway.

In other words it’s a virtual parade of the very worst people currently living on planet earth. I’m posting some of the, well, milder tweets below, but even though I’m avoiding the worst you should seriously consider heeding this TRIGGER WARNING and visit @CuteEmergency instead.

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So here are the sorts of people in War Machine has in his corner:

Oh, but it gets worse. The most active commenter in the hashtag is a hyperbolically racist troll (in all senses of the word) whose name contains a racial slur. You’ll have to go through his history to see the terrible, terrible things he’s saying; there’s no way I’m posting them here. Be WARNED: His Twitter page is illustrated with a giant photograph of the severely injured Christy Mack.

What’s stranger than this outpouring of support from foul misogynistic shitheads is that War Machine is also getting what appears to be utterly sincere fans who think that he is the real victim here.

Meanwhile, this woman, whose thoughts proved too expansive for Twitter, gave the whole situation a New Age spin. Citing the so-called “Law of Attraction,” she argued that War Machine had only turned bad because he’d brought a bad person with bad energy into his life. That person being the woman he (allegedly) nearly killed.

I would sic a hardcore curriculum of LAW OF ATTRACTION on his ass.

I almost did… he read a book I sent him when he was in jail… and he seemed to turn things around for a while. But the material didn’t stick. It requires almost the same level of dedication and practice that MMA itself requires.

And Mack was just a huge fucking wrong turn for him.

“You are who you hang out with.”

“You become the thoughts you most repeatedly have.”

Mack gets fucked all the time = WM is now fucked. Big-time.

Blah.

#StopHangingOutWithLosers

I pray that the judge hates the porn industry…maybe her husband left her for a porn star… and maybe hence, the judge will have some sympathy for WM…lol.

I suppose I have to give this woman credit for originality. Victim blaming is more an art than a science, and this is artful indeed.


Leave it to The Spearhead to come up with the most repellent take on Ray Rice I’ve seen thus far

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Ray Rice, Janay Rice

The We Hunted the Mammoth Pledge Drive continues! If you haven’t already, please consider sending some bucks my way. (And don’t worry that the PayPal page says Man Boobz.) Thanks!

If you hope to make it through the day without losing all hope in humanity, you may not wish to read the following thoughts on Ray and Janay Rice from our old friend from The Spearhead, W.F. Price.

I know people instinctively and reflexively sympathize with the victim of a brutal attack, but …

Yeah, I’m giving you all one more chance to back out of this right now, because we all know that nothing good is going to come after that “but.”

… there comes a time when one has to ask whether or not the victim bears some responsibility for putting herself in this situation. Does Janay really think that will be the last time Rice gives her a beatdown? And even if she does, what statement is she making in marrying a man willing to treat her like that?

The statement is clear: she thinks the violence is a reasonable tradeoff for whatever she gets in return for her relationship, whether it’s sexual gratification, status or money. …

But feminists would have us believe that domestic violence is a patriarchal imposition, despite the fact that married women in patriarchal families suffer the lowest rates of domestic violence of all partnered women in the United States.

Price cites a previous post of his as evidence for this claim, though to declare it wildly misleading would be an understatement. While domestic violence rates among married couples are lower than among cohabiting couples, this isn’t a clean comparison; as Joanna Pepin notes on The Society Pages, it ignores “that selection out of cohabitation and into marriage – and selection out of marriage through divorce – creates an apples-and-oranges comparison between these two groups.” It’s also worth pointing out that as marriage rates have fallen over the last several decades, domestic violence rates have fallen as well.

In fact, study after study after study after study find that domestic violence rates tend to be highest amongst those with traditional – that is, patriarchal – values.

Let’s let Price continue, as we haven’t even gotten to the worst stuff yet.

Maybe feminists think the patriarchy has secretly implanted little chips in women’s brains that lead them to seek out men who will beat them up.

Somehow, instead of choosing granola-crunching lesbians, these women make a beeline for musclebound athletes, beefy bikers and ghetto thugs.

How many different types of bigotry can he fit into one sentence? I count three.

But maybe it isn’t the patriarchy. Maybe there’s something about female sexuality that defies feminist ideals. Perhaps it’s kind of a chaotic, anarchic thing that doesn’t pay attention to pronouncements about what’s right and proper.

Maybe, just maybe, the only way to really cut down on intimate violence would be to restrict women’s sexual freedom.

Well, aside from the fact that this is, uh, an utterly appalling thing to say, particularly in response to an incident in which a man knocked out his then-fiancee in an elevator, it’s also completely wrong. Indeed, studies show the opposite – that the more control women have over their lives, the less domestic violence there is.

Oh, but Price stops just short of explicitly advocating that men should be put in charge of women’s sexuality.

Would I advocate for that? No. As adults, women should make their own decisions in that regard. However, to blame men in general for the results of women’s sexual decisions is absolutely unacceptable.

As terrible as Price’s post is, the comments from The Spearhead’s regulars are, as usual, even worse.

According to the fellow who calls himself TFH,

The biggest error that Western Civ ever made was assuming that women could be ‘adults’. …

The woman’s brain-gina interface is obsolete. She is programmed to get gina tingles from men who were suited to excel in the world of pre-historic times, while she is programmed to be revulsed by the man who would have fared poorly then (the introverted STEM guys of today).

One cannot fully understand why women write love letters to serial killers and continue to get back with violent boyfriends, without also realizing the hate that women have for tech nerds, and how there is an obsessive push to divert tech money to women (i.e. they hate that money is appearing in the hands of men their gina does not tingle for).

Again, the brain-gina interface of women is obsolete. That is the most complete explanation.

I should point out that TFH – also known as The Fifth Horseman – is considered one of the leading intellectual lights of the Men’s Rights movement, with his loopy 2010 manifesto The Misandry Bubble winning praise from everyone from A Voice for Men’s favorite therapist Dr. Helen to self-promoting British MRA Mike Buchanan to crusty old Counter-Feminist Fidelbogen. Oh, and WF PRice, too.

Back in The Spearhead’s comment section, meanwhile, Eric J Schlegel trots out some evo-psych just-so stories to buttress a similarly backwards conclusion:

Women get the ‘gina tingle from the alpha male because, from an evolutionary perspective, those are the genes that contribute to survival. Trouble is, those same sociopathic thugs are not at all any use as protector and provider, so she takes the results of her selective breeding, along with her black eye, and finds a beta schlub provider to help raise them. … [P]erhaps others here have similar stories where female aquaintances chose assholes in their hormoned youth, only to settle for a nice guy with 3-4 thug bastards in tow. Women such as the one you’ve talked about here are those who have not overcome their animal instincts, every bit as much as the men who put them in ICU. The authority that a man used to have over his daughters as well as his sons used to act as somewhat of a check on this social dynamic, but we all know what happened to that…

I think it’s safe to say that if you ever run across a dude who refers to “‘ginas” instead of “vaginas” you should run as far away as your legs will take you.

Someone called Stoltz concludes

This is what happens when a society tells women they are equal – no,no – superior – to men. Movies and TV shows that show a female character acting like a hellish b*tch, goings around kicking everyone’s rearends. … Feminist and a feminist-backed government who tell women they have no responsibilities, and all the rights, so they believe they can do whatever they please to whoever (of course, the ‘whoever’ are men).

Meanwhile, another commenter suggests that the only solution is “to repeal the civil rights laws that prevent people from keeping ‘those’ people out.” Yet another declares that “Ray Rice triggers my gaydar pretty hard” and suggests that Janay “looks like a tranny.”

Price himself shows up with some comments even worse than his post, arguing that abused women stick with their abusers

because it feels good. Having a dominant man is a pleasurable feeling for a lot of women. It’s like a shot of dope for a heroin addict, who knows that he’s taking a big risk each time he injects the drug into his arm, but can’t stop himself from doing so anyway.

Just a couple days ago there was a power outage where I live due to some construction/maintenance in the area. I had to go to a nearby hotspot to do some work online and so did a few neighbors. One of my neighbors was an ordinary, middle-aged woman. She left her phone on speaker for some reason, and she got a call from her man that I heard as clear as day. He called, and then when she didn’t pick up immediately I could hear him yelling at her in a threatening manner for not answering promptly. Then, the guy demanded she get power of attorney over her mother so he could drain the old lady’s bank account, and when she raised reasonable objections to it he was insistent and angry. I was just shaking my head, but this mild-mannered, very plain 40-something white lady looked positively radiant upon receiving this kind of violent attention from her thuggish, scumbag boyfriend.

This is what English teachers like to call an “unreliable narrator.”

 


Creepy expat “dates” 18-year-olds “because they make excellent devoted sex slaves.”

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Pubic louse. One of many creatures that Xsplat is worse than.

Pubic louse. One of many creatures that Xsplat is worse than.

There are a lot of good reasons why the words “creepy” and “expat” end up together so often. But sometimes the word “creepy” really isn’t strong enough.

Take the latest post on Random Xpat Rantings, the blog of an especially creepy 50-something expat living in Bali. “Xplat’s” posts are almost always skin-crawlingly awful, but he’s really outdone himself with a sexually explicit ode to cross-generational, er, “romance” titled “The value of being the center of religious devotion.”

He’s not big on self-awareness, this guy.

He starts off with this doozy:

Many people, men included, can’t seem to wrap their minds around why on earth a man would date a teenager 30 years younger than himself.

No, I think pretty much everyone knows why you’re “dating” a teenager – in a country with a per-capita income one-fifteenth that of the United States.

An 18 year old is capable of extreme crushes, and can be brought into a religious reverie of constant devotion towards her man.

Like I said, he’s not big on self-awareness.

Especially if she’s given regular doses of intense sex. Intense physically, erotically, emotionally, violently, romantically, exhibitionously, and any other ly. Just intense experience in which it feels as if you share the same emotional and physical worlds.

Exhibitionously? (Not a real word.) Violently?

After some vaguely Buddhist pseudo-profundities on the nature of “love,” he launches into a grotesque and explicit discussion of how the young woman he calls “N18” pleasures him sexually “with frenzied devotion.” We’ll just skip past that and move on to this:

I am the center of her world, and when we are together you will see her spend all her attention on trying to make me happy. I don’t dole out love constantly, but she relishes each burst of it, and patiently waits around for the next dose.

His hot-and-cold approach to doling out “love” is of course a classic abuser tactic.

This is not just a matter of blow jobs on command. This is loving devoted passionate blow jobs.

That’s why an older man would date an 18 year old. Because they make excellent devoted sex slaves.

I’m speechless.

Even after four years of writing about the “manosphere” I’m still amazed and appalled by the ways these guys manage to outdo themselves in awfullness.


No troll, no MRA Open Thread for discussion of the murders of Angelia Magnum and Tjhisha Ball

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Angelia Magnum and Tjhisha Ball

Angelia Magnum and Tjhisha Ball

An open thread for discussion of the murders of sex workers Angelia Magnum and Tjhisha Ball in Jacksonville, as well as any other topics that might benefit from having no interruptions from misogynist trolls, victim-blamers and other derailers.

Needless to say, this is a no troll, no MRA, no victim-blamer thread; bans will be handed out freely to anyone who violates this rule.



Reddit hits a new low with a subreddit promoting the “corrective” rape of “sluts” and “harlots.”

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Collage of images from the PhilosophyOfRape subreddit

Collage of images from the PhilosophyOfRape subreddit

For a social media site with pretensions to respectability, Reddit shows an astounding tolerance for hate. As anyone who has ever explored the site’s dark underbelly knows well, the site hosts a vast array of subreddits devoted to celebrations of such things as “white pride” and violence against women.

The latest addition to this archipelago of awfulness is a 3-day-old subreddit with the pretentious and appalling name PhilosophyOfRape, set up by a user of the same name in order to promote and celebrate “corrective” rape of “sluts” and “harlots.”

In a manifesto announcing the subreddit to the world, the user known as PhilosophyOfRape set forth his basic thesis, which he insists is as “serious as a heart attack.”

Rape served a very important function in mitigating female behavior and keeping it in check. Back in the time of prehistory, a woman couldn’t behave as shamelessly slutty as she can today, because of the risk of catching the eye of the wrong male. But now, with “consent” laws barring nature back, and feminism and sexual-liberation perverting whole generations of hearts and minds, we find ourselves in a situation gone way, way, too far.

These harpies need to be humbled. And for their own good. Like the child with absolutely no boundaries and no discipline, they may feel they yearn for no rules, but become absolutely lost without an adult to tell them no! …

It’s not only morally justifiable to rape such a woman, it’s and brave.

At the risk of stating the obvious, this isn’t true for all female human beings. We’re not talking about nuns or grandmothers or humble, married, women of twenty years.

We’re talking about filthy, unmitigated, sluts. Oblivious and loud. Shameless. Belligerent. Entitled. Selfie taking, Tindr-whoring, Teenage-walking-herpes-sores. We are talking about bad, bad, individuals. Unruly, neglicted, children, run-amok. That badly need to be punished. Badly.

For the good of society these women need to be raped.

Here we will teach how to do it safely.

Emphasis mine, typos his.

By “safely” he means safely for the rapists, of course. In a followup post, he explained that

We are here to provide encouragement and advice how to [rape] and do it safely. Regression analysis to find out which variables make it less likely to get into legal trouble. Very few women report the rapes, what can you do to make it even less likely? Example: remind the victim that “no one will believe them”. When they orgasm (which is actually very common during rape, Google it) speak up and let them know that you are aware of it and that it will come out during trial if they reported it.

As he sees it, his program should have a good deal of appeal to the “Elliot Rodger types” of the world.

[T]here are swarms and swarms of filth parading around downtown and around campus every friday and saturday night, very badly needing to be Corrected. And there are many men out there fit to do it with just a little encouragement. The Elliot Rodger types could so easily be making a difference and gaining a purpose with just a little direction and support. I am not a “neckbeardy” type or a perma-virge or anything like that. I’ve had consentual sex with 9 girls, and have had serious relationships etc. But I do have a great deal of sympathy for these guys.

Indeed, PhilosophyOfRape hopes to transform “these guys” into a holy army of rapists:

I hate my generation, they at scum and filth and are not worthy to breathe my air. The brutish and ignorant apes that pass for men are bad, but it is their double X chromosomed counterparts that truly defile the word “human” by associating it with their detestable essences. It is the harlots that are in the greatest need of corrective discipline and it is for these harlots that the appropriate punishment is most clear: rape. Simple, swift, brutal, rape. Impassioned and indiacriminate. A whole team of holy soldiers, cutting these abominations down to a place where their feeble heads can even see Their selves for the meek and lowly creatures they are, and will greatfully bow, averting their eyes in humility and spending their dazed working quietly, tending the home and reflecting on HOW they had once thought it fit to behave.

Emphasis mine.

In a now-deleted comment on the Men’s Rights subreddit that can still be found in his comment history, PhlilosophyOfRape suggested that Emma Watson was a good example of a

harlot [who] needs to be Corrected. As badly as any of them and perhaps even more so because she made choices that allowed her to retain an image with a semblance of dignity. But it is only a veneer.

And in another comment, he responded to a violent threat from a critic with a threat of his own, writing that “I’d love to rape you to death. And your daughter.”

Even more disturbingly, in a comment on TheRedPill subreddit, PhilosophyOfRape claimed that he has raped seven women so far, and that he successfully convinced a friend to rape yet another:

These harlots need to be Corrected. I so far have Corrected 7. Two last year but over five already in 2014 and a brother I’ve brought into the fold has already Corrected his first one, a vile, putrid, one.

PhilosophyOfRape, or some troll inspired by his writings, has posted some of these things on 8chan as well, where they’ve gotten essentially zero traction.

Is he lying? Is he trolling? Possibly, though it’s worth pointing out that Elliot Rodger’s even more outlandish manifesto would have likely been dismissed as the work of a troll had its release to the world not come on the heels of Rodger’s grotesque killing spree. I can only hope that PhilosophyOfRape’s claim to have raped 7 women is a lie. But beyond that he seems quite sincere.

Even if he is trolling, what he’s written is hate speech, and one wonders why Reddit’s admins, who have certainly been notified about PhilosophyOfRape – the user and the subreddit – haven’t banned him outright.

But looking the other way seems to be the modus operandi of Reddit’s admins.

Reddit has won itself a well-deserved reputation as a place where anything goes – particularly if that “anything” involves the degradation of women. During the debacle known as The Fappening, Reddit’s admins allowed their site become one of the primary internet conduits for the distribution of a virtual cache of illegally obtained celebrity nudes – including some featuring celebs who were underage when their pictures were taken. The admins only took TheFappening subreddit down when it appeared they might face legal consequences. By then the subreddit had already racked up hundreds of millions of pageviews, earning Reddit enough to pay for its server costs for several months (and possibly much more).

The admins’ casual tolerance for TheFappening wasn’t much of a surprise to anyone who has paid attention to the site for any length of time. Reddit for years hosted an assortment of subreddits devoted to sexualized, often stolen pictures of underage girls – even honoring the man responsible for the popular JailBait subreddit with an Reddit Alien statuette as an award; the admins only banned the subreddits after activists and an assortment of media outlets reported that child porn was being openly traded on r/jailbait.

The trouble is, this sort of awfulness appeals enormously to Reddit’s user base; even if they don’t partake in it themselves, Redditors tend to react with outrage whenever the admins – belatedly – take down subreddits that have become a danger to the site’s reputation. Jailbait was an extraordinarily popular subreddit, and many Redditors still mourn the day it was taken down.

And while PhilosophyOfRape has only picked up a tiny handful of subscribers in the first few days of its existence – and a small army of detractors who’ve collectively spammed the subreddit with kitten pics – other subreddits with a similar, er, appeal –from RapingWomen and BeatingWomen2 to HotRapeStories and ChokeABitch – collectively have thousands of subscribers. CuteFemaleCorpses, a subreddit devoted to sexualizing pictures of actual dead women, managed to rack up a little more than 800,000 pageviews last month. The WatchPeopleDie subreddit boasts 44,000 subscribers.

Racism also sells. The cartoonishly racist GreatApes subreddit, devoted to over the top attacks on “n*ggers” that make Stormfront seem a bastion of tolerance by comparison, generated nearly one million pageviews in September; the subreddit boasts several dozen other smaller subreddits in what it calls its “chimpire,” the overwhelming majority of which contain the word “n*gger” (without the asterisk) or references to apes in their names.

We hear again and again, without much proof, that the people posting on these subreddits are just “trolls,” though much of what they write is little more than a blunter version of what is regularly posted elsewhere on Reddit, from the racist snark in r/videos to the misogyny of r/mensrights and r/theredpill.  Regardless, I’m sure that some of them are trolls.

But there is a very real danger to Reddit’s continuing tolerance of users – and whole communities – driven by hatred. At some point someone – either someone posting hateful screeds like PhilosophyOfRape, or someone inspired by these screeds – is going to take this hate to the real world, as Elliot Rodger did only a few months ago. (If he’s telling the truth about the rapes, PhilosophyOfRape already has.) PhilosophyOfRape may be nothing but hot, fetid air — I perhaps naively hope —  but I think it’s a virtual certainty that some day, possibly quite soon, Reddit itself is going to give birth to another Elliot Rodger.

And then the Reddit administrators will have blood on their hands.

EDIT: If you want to report PhilosophyOfRape to the authorities, the FBI’s tip page is here.

EDIT 2: Clarified some things in the final paragraph.


A Voice for Men’s Alison Tieman: Winning women the vote was “Feminism’s first act of female supremacy.”

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I don’t often write about Alison Tieman – the eccentric FeMRA videoblogger known better as Typhon Blue – in large part because, well, have you ever watched one of her videos? Her arguments and assertions bear so little relation to what the rest of us know as reality it’s as if she lives in some weird inverted world of her own making.

It’s rather difficult to address the arguments of someone when virtually everything she says is wrong – logically, historically, morally – in some fundamental way.

But I’m going to have a go at her latest video anyway, because, well, it’s only 4 minutes long, which will make unpacking its fractal wrongness a little less of a daunting task. Also, there’s a kitty in it.

In the video, Tieman, in the guise of “Professor Hamster,” makes the startling claim that Women’s Suffrage was “Feminism’s first act of female supremacy.”

How, you might wonder, does equality at the ballot box count as “female supremacy?”

Well, according to Tieman – one of A Voice for Men’s self-proclaimed Honey Badgers – it’s because women (at least in the US) don’t have to register for the draft.

This is an old argument of hers, based on the strange belief that voting rights for men in the United States are contingent on them signing up for selective service, something that’s not, you know, true. She seems to be confusing the United States with the fictional universe of Starship Troopers, in which “Service Guarantees Citizenship.”

In any case, because suffragettes didn’t demand to be drafted when they demanded the vote their demand, Tieman concludes that they weren’t seeking equality but supremacy.

Never mind that at the time the notion of women being drafted would have struck the general public as absurd.

Never mind that when draft registration was being considered for reinstatement in 1981, the National Organization for Women sued to have registration expanded to women as well, because not requiring women to register would relegate them “to second-class citizenship by exclusion from a fundamental obligation of citizenship,” as the New York Times summarized their position.

Ultimately, over NOW’s objections, the Supreme Court ruled that registration could be restricted to men only. The all-male Supreme Court; the court didn’t get its first female Justice, Sandra Day O’Connor, until later that year.

For all of the hullabaloo, the requirement that men register for the draft is an essentially meaningless “obligation.” The draft is a dead issue in the US, about as likely to be revived as Jarts.

Tieman goes on to note that “female suffrage enabled women to vote for wars that only men had to fight in.” In fact, as anyone who’s paid any attention to real world politics knows well, women are consistently less likely than men to support war.

Tieman’s arguments about women’s suffrage are just bizarre. It’s when she starts talking about the civil rights movement that she moves beyond bizarre to offensive.

Throughout the video, she contrasts what she sees as the good and humble civil rights movement with the “privileged” and “entitled” suffragettes; it’s a strange and backwards argument, at odds with historical reality, and one that insults not only the suffragettes but our greatest civil rights heroes as well. “During the civil rights movement,” she proclaims,

black moderates believed that black people needed to EARN their civil rights. Extremists at the time believed that blacks people should receive their rights by virtue of being human beings. …

Minorities felt they had to earn their rights and often had to make enormous sacrifices in war prior to even having their requests for rights considered reasonable. Women felt they were simply owed. …

Minorities approached suffrage from the usual mentality of people who are actually oppressed: We have to earn everything, including citizenship rights. Whereas women approached the issue of suffrage from a mentality of privilege and entitlement: We are owed our rights.

Where even to start with this jumble of wrongness?

Let’s start with her most basic misapprehension, that human rights are something that have to be earned. In fact, the basic premise of human rights is that we have certain rights because we are human beings. This isn’t entitlement or extremism; it is the fundamental basis of democracy.

You would think that someone who calls herself a Men’s Human Rights Activist would have a better understanding of the rudiments of  human rights.

In the Declaration of Independence, you may recall, Thomas Jefferson famously proclaimed “that all men are … endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights.” He didn’t say they had to earn these rights; he said that they were born with them.

Granted, it took quite some time before this sentiment applied not only to women but to all human beings regardless of race, but this had nothing to do with anyone “earning” rights; it had to do with the fact that some human beings were seen as more human than others.

When Martin Luther King made his case for civil rights in the 1950s and 1960s, he harked back explicitly to Jefferson’s words in the Declaration of Independence. In his most famous speech, delivered on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial during the March on Washington in 1963, he declared

In a sense we have come to our nation’s capital to cash a check. When the architects of our republic wrote the magnificent words of the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence, they were signing a promissory note to which every American was to fall heir. This note was a promise that all men, yes, black men as well as white men, would be guaranteed the unalienable rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. …

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: “We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal.”

This was not the first time he had made this argument. In a 1957 speech also delivered on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial, he declared that

The denial of this sacred right [to vote] is a tragic betrayal of the highest mandates of our democratic traditions and its is democracy turned upside down.

So long as I do not firmly and irrevocably possess the right to vote I do not possess myself. I cannot make up my mind — it is made up for me. I cannot live as a democratic citizen, observing the laws I have helped to enact — I can only submit to the edict of others.

It’s our humanity, not a signature on a selective service registration form, that entitles all of us to the right to vote.

If the Men’s Rights Movement wants to campaign to end selective service registration, go for it. Just don’t pretend that this has anything to do with the right to vote. Or that demanding basic human rights is a sign of “entitlement,” much less “female supremacy.”

Also, maybe lose the stupid hat?

Below, a song that kept popping into my head as I tried to make sense of Tieman’s most peculiar views. Well, the chorus anyway; the rest of the lyrics don’t really fit.


A Voice for Men’s Janet Bloomfield libels Anita Sarkeesian with an obviously fake “screenshot” of a Tweet that never was

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Janet Bloomfield: Unapologetic asshole. Profile picture for one of her Twitter accounts.

Janet Bloomfield: Unapologetic asshole. Profile picture for one of her Twitter accounts.

EDIT: Bloomfield says she found the screenshot on Facebook. Details below.

Janet Bloomfield – A Voice for Men’s compulsively lying “social media director” – is at it again.

A couple of months back, Bloomfield – who goes by JudgyBitch1 on Twitter – decided for some reason that she could best serve AVFM’s social media directing needs by straight-up libeling feminist writer Jessica Valenti – by making up inflammatory quotes and attributing them to Valenti in a series of Tweets. She later boasted in on her blog that the quotes – which she admitted she’d conjured out of thin air – had inflamed hatred of Valenti and caused her to catch “a bit of hell.”

Now Bloomfield is pulling the exact same stunt again. This time, her target is feminist cultural critic and #GamerGate bete noire Anita Sarkeesian.

On Saturday, Bloomfield tweeted an obviously doctored “screenshot” of a tweet that Sarkeesian never made.

Screenshot here in case she takes it down or gets tossed off Twitter again; here’s another screenshot including replies from JB’s fans.

How do we know this is fake? Well, whoever made this fake screenshot made one glaringly obvious mistake: this Tweet is way too long to be a real tweet. Twitter, as you probably know, has a strict limit on the number of characters you can use in a Tweet. 140. This fake tweet has 218.

Here’s what happened when I typed the same text into Twitter myself: as you can see, I went over the limit by 78 characters. That’s, uh, a lot.

 

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As you can see, the “Tweet” button is disabled; it’s simply impossible to post Tweets that are too long.

Looking back through Sarkeesian’s Twitter timeline, I found the real Tweet that she posted at 2:32 PM on the 29th of September.

As you can see, not only does the time match, but the numbers of favorites and retweets is roughly the same as well; there have only been a handful more added since the fake screenshot was made. Whoever made the fake tweet obviously just screenshotted this real tweet and then pasted in new text using the same font used by Twitter.

The sheer incompetence is astounding.

Did Bloomfield make this Tweet herself, or did she simply pass along a fake screenshot she found somewhere else? Well, Google Images couldn’t find any other instances of this fake screenshot on the internet; Bloomfield appears to be the first person to post it. Which suggests that either she or someone she knows made it – or someone else made it and sent it to her, and she posted it on the internet without checking to see if it was real.

Given her proclivity for making up quotes and attributing them to her enemies, I’m going to take a wild guess and say that I think she had something to do with creating the fake screenshot.

EDIT: Bloomfield says she found the screenshot on Facebook, on a page called Feminist Crazy Quotes, where it seems to have first appeared. Here’s her Facebook repost of it. It’s not clear where Feminist Crazy Quotes got it, as I can’t find any other instances of the tweet on the internet using Google Image search. It’s still not clear why the supposed “social media director” of AVFM, a woman who seems to spend half her life on Twitter, would not immediately realize that the Tweet was way too long to be a real Tweet.

If you scroll down through the responses to Bloomfield’s tweet, you’ll notice that Bloomfield’s fans ate this blatant deception right up; inclined to believe the worst about Sarkeesian, they easily convinced themselves that this preposterous, overlong, literally impossible tweet was real. And Bloomfield was in the thick of it, egging on their hate.

 

When one #GamerGater noted that the quote seemed a bit much, even for the hated Sarkeesian, another commenter pulled out the “radfem” card.

It goes without saying that Sarkeesian is not, in fact, a radical feminist.

When a few other tweeters pointed out the obvious – that Sarkeesian’s alleged tweet was in fact way too long to be a real tweet – Bloonfield fell back on the same “logic” she used when she was called out for making up quotes about Valenti: well, she may not have said this, but doesn’t it sound like something Sarkeesian would say?

No she wouldn’t. She didn’t. If she had, you wouldn’t need to use a fake screenshot to demonize her.

Amazingly, even after the tweet had been revealed to be fake, even after JB was reduced to claiming it was a “Poe” – just as she did with the fake Valenti quotes – the hatefest continued on, with dozens more tweets from JB’s peanut gallery denouncing Sarkeesian for her imaginary racism.

Here are just a few of them:

One more prudent Tweeter suggested that Bloomfield might want to take down the blatantly fake screenshot, if only to protect herself.

Ironically, while going back through Sarkeesian’s timeline to see if I could find the Tweet that was used in the screenshot, I ran across this:

And while most the overwhelming majority of this defamation comes from angry men, some of it comes from angry women – like Janet Bloomfield — who are every bit as dishonest and abusive as their male counterparts.

 


Stuff You Absolutely Have to Read: Kathy Sierra and Adria Richards on Harassment and “Trolls”

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Sometimes when I post links, they’re simply interesting things I’ve run across. These, though, are essential reads:

Why the Trolls Will Always Win, by Kathy Sierra, Wired

A detailed post by Java expert and game developer Sierra describing the harassment and vilification she’s faced for the crime of, well, basically for being a woman in the tech world. While long and a bit rambling in spots, this is an important piece that, among other things, describes how harassers can sometimes transform slanderous assertions about their targets into “conventional wisdom,” details the damage that “trolls” can have on a person’s reputation (and their life generally), and offers some sobering reflections on the culture of harassment and how difficult it can be to fight.

She offers these thoughts on the ways in which Twitter can serve as an enabler of this kind of harassment:

Twitter, for all its good, is a hate amplifier. Twitter boosts signal power with head-snapping speed and strength. Today, Twitter (and this isn’t a complaint about Twitter, it’s about what Twitter enables) is the troll’s best weapon for attacking you. …

It begins with simple threats. You know, rape, dismemberment, the usual. It’s a good place to start, those threats, because you might simply vanish once those threats include your family. Mission accomplished. But today, many women online — you women who are far braver than I am — you stick around. And now, since you stuck around through the first wave of threats, you are now a much BIGGER problem.

And she takes on the “troll logic” of those who insist that unless there’s legal action no “real” harassment has happened:

You’re probably more likely to win the lottery than to get any law enforcement agency in the United States to take action when you are harassed online, no matter how viciously and explicitly. Local agencies lack the resources, federal agencies won’t bother. (Unless you’re a huge important celebrity. But the rules are always different for them. But trolls are quite happy to attack people who lack the resources to do anything about it. Troll code totally supports punching DOWN.)

There IS no “the authorities” that will help us.

We are on our own.

And if we don’t take care of one another, nobody else will.

We are all we’ve got.

Much of Sierra’s piece focuses on one of her biggest enemy in all of this, “hacktivist” Andrew Auernheimer, better known as weev. He’s posted a response to Sierra’s piece. It’s pretty appalling; weev is a hateful misogynist and white supremacist. Here’s a sampling:

Kathy Sierra is the epitome of what is wrong with my community. She had something coming to her and by the standards set by her own peers in the social justice community, there was nothing wrong with what she got.

I do not hate women. My colleagues include quite a few (cis and trans) women. I support women making tech. However, it is high time for the “women in tech” to get the fuck out.

The other essential bit of reading?

Telling My Story, by Adria Richards, Storify.

Developer and tech evangelist Richards, you may recall, ignited the fury of the Great Internet Lady Harassment Machine by tweeting about sexist jokes she overheard at a tech conference. At the time, she largely kept silent about the harassment she was getting. But now she’s speaking up and sharing the details.

In a series of Tweets yesterday, Richards posted screenshots documenting some of the worst harassment she’s gotten; this Storify collection pulls these together in one place.

Make the effort to enlarge and read the screenshots; they’re horrifying. And Richards promises to post more.

While I’m posting links, here’s one that’s hardly essential but that’s pretty funny:

Local Chicago Man Would Like Women to Smile, Accept His Advances, by Kara Brown.

No, this last one isn’t from The Onion. It’s REALLLL.


Red Piller wins the culture war with innovative “panty sniffer” insult

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My post about Heartiste and the sour slut grapes the other day inspired the following highly ironic series of Tweets from Mr. H and one of his fans.

RedPillPhil ‏@RedPillPhil  @DavidFutrelle you on your best day could never match intellects with @heartiste. That's why you and your ilk must resort to mewling snark      Reply     Retweet     Favorite  11:30 AM - 9 Oct 2014 Tweet text Reply to @RedPillPhil @heartiste       heartiste ‏@heartiste 11h11 hours ago      @RedPillPhil @DavidFutrelle Fatrelle, have you ever talked to a cute girl without loading your fat boy diapers? Online doesn't count.         Reply         Retweet         Favorite     RedPillPhil ‏@RedPillPhil 11h11 hours ago      @heartiste @DavidFutrelle Futrelle is definitely a panty sniffer.

I am overwhelmed by the intellectual firepower on display in these Tweets!

RedPillPhill has offered other highly erudite critiques of my writing in the past.

Hmm. This last one seems debatable, given that RedPillPhil is a Dark Enlightenment “race realist” who recently retweeted this lovely cartoon:

Apparently posting racist cartoons and calling me a womanly panty-sniffer is how Phil plans to win the war. What war? THE CULTURE WAR.

Is the Dark Enlightenment called the Dark Enlightenment because everyone involved in it has their head permanently up their own ass?


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